groups

In other words, it's now clear: Most Americans are for a timeline, and so are most Iraqis. And even experts in the Pentagon agree.

For his part, Barack Obama is using these developments to hammer home the point that John McCain and President Bush are now isolated in their resistance to any kind of timeline for withdrawal. He wrote an Op-Ed in the New York Times yesterday that reaffirmed his commitment to a timeline that would have all combat troops out of Iraq in 16 months.

It concludes, "Unlike Senator McCain, I would make it absolutely clear that we seek no presence in Iraq similar to our permanent bases in South Korea. . . [F]or far too long, those responsible for the greatest strategic blunder in the recent history of American foreign policy have ignored useful debate in favor of making false charges about flip-flops and surrender. It's not going to work this time. It's time to end this war."

Do you links for your 3 points? I'm especially interested in #'s 1 & 2.

I have a private take on this. The al-Maliki coolition expects to crush Shia opposition through military means. Then removing the Americans allows the Shia government to crush America's Sunni militia. Lastly, with their protectors (the Americans) gone and surrounded by hostile governments, the Kurds can be reigned in.

Iraq will then just be another autocratic/theocratic regime in the Middle East. I just don't see any evidence of any social organizations taking root in Iraq other than those that perpetuate the current government in power.

Whether we stay two years, or one hundred years, the end will be the same a radical theocracy.

at the end of the day when we leave, iraq will run their house the way they see fit acording to their beliefs and morals .. not ours .. we can't just give them our constitution and expect them to enact it, enforce it, understand it , or respect it like we do .. they are not americans and have no clue what it's like to be an american just as we and especially this administration have no idea what it's like to be an iraqi .. it's a completely different world over there .. and the sooner we recognize this fact the better it will go for all concerned .. frenchy..

Talk about "flip flops" now mccain is talking about sending troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. the new "surge". I agree with this, however, pretty confusing. We can't draw down the troops in Iraq...oops, never mind...we can. Wow.

view link

view link

view link

view link

Obama's last few words is "time to end this war". Shouldn't it be read as, it's time to get the U.S. out of this war by cutting and running and/or surrender. I don't think that we should listen to the sayings of Ayatolla Fadallah from Lebanon, that geat bastion of stability and common sense. I wasn't a particular fan of Ayatolla Kockamame of Iran either. They are not on my side. Iraq will vote in October and that is a good sign. I believe that they will vote because of our presence, not the absence of it. If only we in the U.S. could get most of our people intereted in voting.

Both Obama and McCain are “flip flopping” on the war, but Obama supporters will only point to McCain as “flip flopping” and McCain supporters will only point to Obama as “flip flopping.”, which tells me that few Americans have a balanced perspective on this issue.

The fact is the war in Iraq may turn out to be the second longest, or maybe even the longest, shooting war, right behind Vietnam, that America has ever engaged in, and the mission has already changed many times, and in my opinion, it will continue to change well into the future.

It appears to me that Iraq is destined to become very close allies with Iran, and I agree with Torry49; “Whether we stay two years, or one hundred years, the end will be the same a radical theocracy.” My position has always been that we should have focused more heavily on the war in Afghanistan and never invaded Iraq. Invading Iraq was/is one of the biggest foreign policy disasters America has ever engaged in, and it was done solely to satisfy the ego of President George W, Bush.

There are pros and cons to us withdrawing from Iraq, just as there are pros and cons about us withdrawing from Afghanistan; and all sorts of scenarios may develop if we withdraw from either; both Iraq and Afghanistan are Muslim nations which lean towards a theocracy, although Afghanistan is predominately Sunni and Iraq is redolently Shia. Next we will be discussing when and how we should withdraw from Afghanistan; what’s the American military mission in Afghanistan, and I would bet that it will change over time just like the mission in Iraq has changed. And I also think that there will come a day when the Afghan people, and maybe even a future Afghan government, will ask America to leave Afghanistan. But like Iraq, who we have given billions of dollars, we are also giving a lot of money to Afghanistan.

I repeat what I said in another post; America will be at war for sometime to come regardless who is elected president, and now that we have invaded Iraq, wasted precious U.S. resources there, and have been there for some time now; what's the difference between the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan; especially if the mission keeps changing? Yes I know that the war in Afghanistan is more justified by lots of Americans than the war in Iraq, but war is war and will withdrawing troops from Iraq and not Afghanistan give us any more peace? When we say “bring the troops home from Iraq ” we should understand that the troops will not be coming home from Iraq, rather they will be transferred to Afghanistan, and it does seem like that will make some Americans feel a lot better.

Cut and run?

72% of U.S. Troops Want Out of Iraq Within One Year» view link

Less than half of Americans think U.S. can win in Iraq view link

63% want all troops home by end of '08 view link

My prediction is that the war in Afghanistan will become much more of a headache for the U.S. than the war in Iraq. Remember what Afghanistan did to the former Soviet Union. Here we are talking about Iraq like Afghanistan does not matter; by the end of 2008 Afghanistan will probably replace Iraq as a dominant issue in the minds of Americans.