Message 761 of 1967

FISA, Immunity, Obama, Bush and Criminal Acts

John Dean had a really interesting post in his blog about what Obama has said he would do and some of the choices that he will have to make if he votes to approve that pending FISA bill in the Senate this week. In fact, the bill only grants CIVIL immunity and leaves the door wide open to going after ANYONE who has broken the law in regards to spying on Americans.

It creates some really interesting situations for Mr. Bush, who can issue pardons for criminals only while he is president. That would also entail admission of guilt for those people who broke the law, including the President himself.

A very interesting read at:
view link

called:
"Barack Obama and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Amendments"

Obama has publicly said: "Now, if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in cover-ups of those crimes with knowledge [aforethought], then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody[’s] above the law -- and I think that's roughly how I would look at it."

Maybe we can start smiling soon, ya think? A chicken may be looking to roost...
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And wouldn't that be wonderful?
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4 months ago
I got the most disgusting far-right republican propaganda message in email yesterday from SC Republican Senator Jim Demint -- he goes so far as to call his crap "The Freedom Alert" like that makes up for any stupidity it contains. Freedom from what, one might ask. Spying on innocent citizens?

Maybe it should be The Demented Report from Demint.

Anyway, he takes the typical approach that the lawbreaking by the telecoms was done in the "best interest of Americans and the President" (my quotes) and that these lawbreakers DESERVE immunity for their illegal and unconstitutional actions.

Blah, blah, blah.

My emailed response to his office would certainly draw smiles from the people in this group.

I know Demint personally, and have absolutely no respect for him. I never did like his conniving, manipulative approach to dealing with people (he was a marketing consultant) and I remember seeing that he was the lowest ranked member of the Senate a while back. Another religious conservative who wants his narrow views of the world to be the World View. A dangerous, slick guy in my honest opinion. Was and is... But we will continue to elect people like this to the legislature because of the nature of SC, I guess...

Ah well. Maybe someday we can elect people to do good things for the country.
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4 months ago
We are losing a great big chunk of the fourth amendment with bill, make no mistake about it. Freedom lost is hard to regain.
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4 months ago
With the criminal sanctions now written into law on the (probable) illegal spying on citizens, it will be most interesting to see some next steps.

Will some of the senators who were outraged about this blanket CIVIL immunity written into the law now step up and begin serious investigation of criminal acts by the administration?

Will the Attorney General of the United States now start to actually investigate some of the issues of Congress and actually respond to the supoenas that have already been issues by congressional committees?

Will our noble President now start offering blanket pardons to people who have broken the laws on his request and instruction?

Will Denis Kuchinich give us more to consider as he expands his list of the impeachable offenses of this Despot Leader of our country?

And you must realize that even belonging to a group like this one will cause some government "representative" to more closely scrutinize your communications with others, here and in all the other electronically interceptable technologies that they can so easily monitor?

(Hey, you know that the government CAN track your location when your cell phone is on, right?)

I do not trust anyone in the Administration to respect the Constitutional Rights of anyone living in America (or contacting anyone living here using electronic communications).

Yet they seem unable to do anything about Spam. What gives?

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4 months ago
The very act itself is unconstitutional. The amendment to FISA, the FOREIGN Intelligence Surveillance Act, that allows intelligence agents, like NSA, to write their own subpoenas/warrants and tap the communications lines of ordinary citizens -- without having to show just cause and get a warrant is a CLEAR violation of the 4th Amendment, unconstitutional, and therefore illegal.

Ditto for similar portions of the Patriot Act.

What has made our country great are the freedoms it has given each of us, by our constitution, to be free of government invasion and intrusion into our homes, our business, our lives. The right to be left alone!

There has had to be a showing of JUST CAUSE! And then, literally that -- a showing -- made before a judge.

We have a secret government now. Judges picked, whose names and whereabouts are secret. Orders issued that we have no right to see -- that is IF the agent chooses to get an order -- for he doesn't have to -- he can write his own warrant. Then produce it to a phone company -- and the phone company is prohibited from even disclosing they have such an order.

Government intelligence agencies now are able to pry into our affairs by telephone, by internet connections -- read our emails, get bank account information -- all of which required a subpoena -- obtained from a judge and then only AFTER a showing of just cause.

If you are as concerned about this loss of our privacy as I am I hope you will write your congressman/congresswoman and express your opposition to allowing our rights to be abrogated so.

Orwell never dreamed....
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4 months ago
Obama has specialized in constitutional Law! It's a good thing being that most polititions (on the surface) seem to know nothing!
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4 months ago
Just a reminder for those with short memories, Clinton created don't ask, don't tell, gutted our social welfare safety net, and passed NAFTA. Progressive faces on right wing politics is what the Democratic party has always done best. When FDR was made to make the laws and policies most of us who consider ourselves on the left hold dear and the right has gutted and intends to eviscerate at some point in the future. It was a peoples movement not a party! The civil rights movement? People in the street takin action! The anti-war movement? People in the streets takin action! I have every intention of voting for Obama but I am not delusional about Capitalist politics. I am gonna be back in the streets the very next peace and social justice march, I advise you all to do the same rather than just write at your computer.

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4 months ago
Are Nazis coming? Or are there here?
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4 months ago