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I went to CUNY back when it was a difficult school to get into . It actually had admission standards , you needed an 85 scholastic average at that time . Then the liberals decided " in the interest of helping minorities " to abolish all entrance requirements and destroyed the system . Eventually they decided to re-establish some requirements for admission and got tough by demanding an 8th grade reading level for admission , LOL .

Once again the broad brush is used to paint the liberals as the bad guys. As Dirck so eloquently points out "the the liberals decided". I'm waiting to see how you guys pin this on Obama too. Don't you ever get tired of the snap to judgement? Do you ever see an issue more complicated than your pat answer, "The liberals did it". Do you actually have any proof of your statement or are we simply to accept it because you said it?

Since we all know, via the pronouncement above, that liberals are tearing the system down, pray tell us what the conservatives en masse are doing to build it up. I mean, you guys do all walk in lock step, right? Every one of you agrees wholeheartedly on every subject known to man? There is not a conservative anywhere who might take his own path?

IMO, the reason the figures are so bad is that all you get in the public school system, now, are those only too poor to get into private schools. And those who remain in public schools are not being taught, but warehoused. Back in the dark ages, if you could not do the work, you were given a failing grade and held back. Not today, we pass the little darlings along so they can be someone else's problem, not caring that we have just unleashed another person with not enough skills to fill out an application, or read. To not damage anyone's delicate little feelings, we no longer let ANYONE fail; everyone gets a trophy, or an award. NO one mentions that you FAILED, do they? These kids today don't even have to learn to spell, and get credit for it. So, do you think this is in the best interest of the future employers of these kids? Do you think the way the Community Colleges were put in place was a pipe dream? People should have to prove they are at a level to do college work, by testing, and if not, go to Community College, get the help you need to reach that level, prove you really want to go to school. Stop enabling the piss poor system we are hopelessly sinking into.

Who is to blame? We all are, for not fighting to keep up the educational standards, for allowing our kids to be short changed, for allowing the teachers to not teach but to become babysitters, for not showing our kids sometimes life sucks, and you DO fail. Whoever told you life is fair, lied to you. It is not fair, and is not all sunshine and lollipops. It is hard, and some days are worse than others, but you need to keep trying. We have shown our kids, it is OK to give up. Too bad.

I grew up in Iowa (the place that developed the SAT stuff etc.) anyway the property taxes on my home there ( town of about 25000 people) are about 4 times what they are for my place in Arizona. The lionshare of those taxes go towards educational bonds - city and state. Iowa's always done well until recently and the math/English scores have fallen - the educators are trying to figure it out. At the end of the day I don't pay much attention to how school bond money is being applied.

You may have shown your kids it was all right to give up, Robt. That's not what my kids were taught. I agree that our edicational system is broken and I believe that "no child left behind" had a hand in it. There are also far too many people who think the school system has sole ownership in seeing that they children get a decent education.

I come from a family that included a large number of teachers. They love what they do and they're good at it. My brother-in-law was able to teach my older daughter her multiplication tables in a matter of minites when her teacher had not been able to get through to her in an entire semester.

A good teacher is worth his or her weight in gold and we don't do nearly enough to support the few really great teachers out there. On the other hand, when my younger son was in grade school, I received notes from his teacher that could have been written by an under-educated 10 year old.

A close reading of RobertC's post would indicate that the last thing he is advocating is "giving up", or allowing our children to "give up". But I'll leave that for him to straighten out.

I also know plenty of dedicated teachers, who use to love going in every day, and who now dread their alarm clock. They wait for retirement, continuing to do the best that they can under overwhelming circumstances. Union rules, city rules, administration rules, government mandates, NCLB (written by Ted Kennedy), teach to the test.
Inability to fail students, inability to expel those who can't or won't meet reasonable standards of behavior, and parents who don't care, or refuse to accept any responsibility.
Yes a good teacher is worth his weight in gold, but union rules don't allow him/her to achieve that level of pay. The money that goes to education, goes for administration, goes for fancy new schools, goes for mandated programs; in NYC it pays for rooms full of teachers who are under investigation or awaiting termination, and on full salary until their case is decided.

I’m not sure either Stokey… Seems to say to me that its OK to QUIT? Not the tough get going! Perhaps he’ll explain it to us…

"I’m not sure either Stokey… Seems to say to me that its OK to QUIT? Not the tough get going! Perhaps he’ll explain it to us… "denjollly/merlin

"We have shown our kids, it is OK to give up." Yeah, I see the confusion. Why do qwe have the drop out rates we have, have we told our kids( sure hell not mine) that if you quit, we'll take care of you? Ask your relatives, merlin, if they REALLY think they are teachers or just herding the masses through the turnstiles? Too many do not take the attitude to try a little harder, but we ENABLE them not to try harder. Learn, don't learn, read, don't read, does it make any difference if you pass the students along instead of making them do the materials, or meet the standards? Why do we offer, in a lot of school districts, a Certificate of Attendance? Sort of cheapens a diploma, doesn't it? Hell, give 'em a gold star, but let the kids who learned, in spite of it all, get the diploma. Single out the ones who did not, celebrate the ones who do. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't meet the standards, you don't deserve anything. We, as a society, offered you a chance to get an education, you, the student, chose not to accept it. But, society is also forced to live with these slackers, everyday. And people wonder why there are so many kids being home schooled?

Den and Strokey, thanks for pointing out my confusion.

Merlin , I was simply reporting the facts on the sad history of CUNY . I did not blame Obama , nor do I blame him for anything which is not the result of his own stupidity or wrong action , of which there is more than enough of both to keep everyone busy in the blame game .

The blame for the failure to educate our children, falls on so many fronts. From the federal, state and local lawmakers who have cut education budgets so deeply that fifty students are crammed into classrooms meant to house thirty. Laws that tie the hands of teachers and principals to introduce anything that remotely resembles discipline, turning them into glorified babysitters. The lack of parental involvement, if Little Johnny isn't learning - it must be the teachers fault.

I also believe that "self-esteem" approach isn't doing anyone any favors. My granddaughter is still stymied over why a classmate got a star on his chart when he got all the answers on a test wrong, and she got the same star for having all of them right. She wants to feel proud of her work, but if her classmate is getting the same reward for doing less - why bother? She's going to private school next year, one that I hope will cultivate her desire to learn.