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Bunnnnies said: "Students can never file bankruptcy on their student loans. This, and rising education costs, allow only the wealthy to send their kids to college."

You are assuming that the present value of the marginal lifetime earning power of a university education is less than its cost. That may be for, say, an English PhD. But an electrical engineering undergraduate is certainly worth it's cost.

And while many parents truly can't materially assist all their children with college costs, a significant number of parents do not deny themselves consumption in order to provide for their children's higher education.

Perhaps, like health care, the financing model for higher education is broken? Our problem is that not everybody wants/needs higher education and while individuals benefit from having it, so does society. So we need a plan for sharing both the costs and the benefits.

You absolutely right. It amazes that people like Trump go bankrupt numerous times over and the banks, who we the real taxpayers bailed out, are standing in line to give him more money. Too bad we can't all multiple corporations and let each one declare bankruptcy when we can't pay our health care bills and maintain our individual standard of living like Trump.

SB: "You are assuming that the present value of the marginal lifetime earning power of a university education is less than its cost."

No, I'm not. And, I'm really less concerned with earning power than I am with an educated populace. I agree that not everyone needs or wants a so-called higher education degree. What bothers me is that folks who want to go to college can't, or end up so stressed and debt ridden that they start looking at an education in dollars and cents only.

Without cheap or free college educations, we lose our good doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc. .... and get money hungry, rich bitch douches ala what we have today. When I was in college in the 60's and 70's conversations were more about doing good with our education. By the time the 80's rolled around, conversations were more about how much money one could earn with a degree. That's sick.

Bingo, galivantstorm!

Bunnnnies said: "I'm really less concerned with earning power than I am with an educated populace."

But a high earning power for an education means that making the investment in that education is both economically smart and an asset-in-the-making that can be borrowed against. If there is no dollar reward for an investment, then making that investment is inefficient compared to other uses of the money (resources).

To make the point using my previous example, does it make any sense to take the ~50% of the population that doesn't get a college degree and fund them at public expense as they all get a PhD in English? Is that a wise use of scarce resources?

We don't live in a world of unlimited resources and prices in a free market economy are the most efficient resource allocation mechanism known. Now markets can fail and government needs to step in and fix those situations. But I'm not sure such a failure exists in higher education.

There may be a problem with how higher education is financed. But the rule that an education is only worth what it pays in the marketplace is close to optimal. Individuals can, of course, elect to 'over pay' for an education. But I see no reason why society should pickup the bill.

Where there is market value in a degree that is in excess of its cost, then government cost sharing with the student makes sense for both the student and society.

Just a thought: view link

"To make the point using my previous example, does it make any sense to take the ~50% of the population that doesn't get a college degree and fund them at public expense as they all get a PhD in English? Is that a wise use of scarce resources?" SB

When you only measure things by their economic return, you're killing the spirit of gaining wisdom ..... whether it's in English, Science, the Arts, music ... or whatever. I can't argue this because my brain can't process valuing education based on dollars and cents only. I just don't live in your world, SB, so I have no ability to debate this.

From my perspective, this is why I'm seeing music and arts, and even science, being cut out the curriculum in K-12 schools. I see ballet, music, science, chorus, band, orchestra .... are incredibly important in helping a child develop into a whole human. Ballet gave my girls the discipline in life that carries them very far today.

Instead, sports for males is always, always, always funded as are things like genetic engineering, weapons technologies, business admin, economics, etc. .... because they make a return on dollars and cents investment.

The great minds that had the so-called leisure time back in the day .... had the time to develop so many of the things we take for granted today. Today, these great minds are full of worrying about student loans, credit cards, which college will get them the highest paying job, etc. The end result is these great minds are destroyed.

It's sick, as is this so called civilization. We're going down, baby .... down like Rome and every other civilization.

Bunnnnies,

I love higher education. I got a BBA in 1973. I got an MBA in 1976. I got halfway through an Associate program in Industrial Engineering before dropping out due to becoming unemployed in 1983. I got an MS in Computer Science in 1999. And today I'm 4 and a half years into auditing every Anthropology class I can take at night while still working full time. (In fact I have to do a 3-5 page paper for Monday.)

I put 3 boys through college and foot the entire bill because I believe the experience is valuable and I wanted them to get the most out of the experience. I told them to find a subject that consumes them. I told them that a university was not a trade school and not to worry about getting a job after graduation; if something didn't happen, I'd support their 'retraining' for the job market.

So I don't think you would actually be uncomfortable in 'my world'.

But public policy isn't about making decisions for people and it's not about wasting public money on less than useful higher education. If society values degree X at $Y, then government has no blanket right to spend more than $Y on that degree. And since the student will reap $Y in increased earnings, then society ought to expect some cost sharing from the student.

You were thirteen when you got your BBA? ~gulp

For some reason my profile B-day was changed (I'm 58). The InternetArchives are down right now so I can't demonstrate that fact. Feel free to check it when they come up.

I hate it when computers change our info lol ...