After reading that the Christian Right feels the Bible is too liberal and that they would like to change it , I was curious and googled that question. 211,000,000 entries !. Most state that it has changed many times and even in many countries through the centuries. . Modified by self interests etc. We know that diff religious folks pick and choose quotes for their own ends and seemingly there are conflicting passages. Does this shake your confidence in it?
Is it real? For me it is. For someone else, probably not. But then I've never bought into the argument that science has proven God doesn't exist. How do you put faith under a microscope? And again, wait a few years and everything science is telling you today, will be wrong down the road.
For me it's faith...you either have it or you don't. I agree, there are those that will take one piece and make it gospel. Can't do that, You may have five or six different passages to bring it to a point.
But Angel, "sugar daddy who lives in the sky"...I don't think so. Because to date no one can explain one simple thing, that is in the Bible. Science calls it the Big Bang, but they also say you can make something from nothing. Now that being the case, What was here to cause the Big Bang? And what was there to create that....and so one. Because not to believe it creation, you'd have to show where it was wrong. But I believe, and also believe others have the same right.
As for the Catholics, I grew in a Catholic family...and dropped it as soon as I could. They very well may be trying to discover life, or something else. I don't know.
But the Bible for a lot of us, is what we try and live by. I'm a Christian, and have come to believe this. Why should I try and tell you you are wrong for not believing. The cold hard facts are this. The only way to know for sure is to die....we all have a 50-50 chance of being right.
What I mean if that it IS a fantasy story! As in "our father who art in heaven?" I do agree that it 's stories are good for guiding us thru life. trying to be good. Do the right thing. Sadly in this world too often than not when ya go for doing the right thing your gonna get screwed. as in "no good deed goes unpunished..
For me it's not fantasy. The Lords prayer, is something that I believe that Jesus taught to the Apostle. "our father who art in heaven" explained to them that God was in the kingdom of heaven.
I agree...doing the right thing, ain't always easy, and sho nuf ain't popular. I also agree that no matter what you do...good or bad...you've got dues to pay. But doing the right thing, like believing in God and the Bible, is up to each of us.
For me, my faith fits me good. But it's one of those things that "one size" doesn't fit all.
The bible is something built upon stories of the author's faith in something more than this life. With the many, many versions in both printed and online versions what started into a set of stories because a basis for a religion.
I do not trust any type of organized system of belief's for all too often it becomes very dependent upon the self-imposed leader to tell the group of followers how to believe. When I lived within the framework of organized religion I had more questions than answers that were forth coming along with finally realizing that "Trust your Faith" and "You have to believe the book is always right" was nothing more than a sham job in my eyes.
I have two different essays written by Xian men who are good people, one compared a ton of verses to Wicca along with using verses from the book to prove his point about an "Unknown God". The other guy had an entirely different take from the same book in how to subjugate those who believed in the book, to include taking all their cash and credit cards and the right to rape any female that they wanted. To top it all off the author used verses from that book to prove his point, and the worst thing he came up with in those bible verses was to have the followers to eat human waste. His essay was very sickening to say the least, but I did not see either one until years after I turned my back to that system of religions.
In theory that book was to set up the idea of an "All-Loving" deity and yet there are stories after stories showing a very spiteful, hateful deity who killed nearly at will. For those who believe that the book is real, how is it there are another 110 known books that were intentionally left out of that book? But what I am trying to point out is one thing, there have been a running debate for centuries as to whether that book is the truth of one long set of fictional Pagan stories adopted to keep those who follow the book in some sort of line.
One thing I have noticed about those who believe that the book is real that there are those who do live with Peace and then there are more to use the same book to their own ends, no matter how short they make life tend to be for others. But all too many use that same book to get people to throw money, not just a little bit of money but $100's of dollars for their own perversions.
SW, for me...there's a world of difference between faith and religion. I'm a Christian, I don't claim any religion (Catholic, Baptist etc.). Like you, I don't believe in the organized religion for the same reasons you've stated. For me it's faith. Pure and simple.
The second writer you talk about, seems to have a go at the teleevangilists. Take guys like Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Jim Jones sure they quote scripture and verse...and use religion to paid their pockets. The early Catholic Church attempted to appese the Pagan Religion, and later just outlawed it.
God is loving. And you're right the killing. But you are also talking about the Old Testament. From Exodus (leaving Egypt) to the birth of Christ, yes were wars. But go to the New Testament, and see how many wars there were. The O/T dealt with the building of Israel and what is called the Old Covenent with God. The N/T is the New Conventant with God.
People, regardless of what they believe, are going to be people. Some good, some not so good, and some we don't even talk about. But again the Christian faith, for me, is what I've spent most of my life looking for. I understand what you are saying, but to give you something to think about. One evangilst told his people that if he didn't get four millions by the end of the week...God was going to take him home. They sent the money. Personally, I know people who would stand and see if he was lying or not. There are those that use religion to get what they want. What can I say.
i agree with all of you and cajun too. each of us want to hold on to our believes and we are right in OUR OWN believes.we are here to discuss if what is written is true.is it? if we all knew for sure we would be less argumentive. these stories was retold many times before they was written. its man that chokes the truth or expands like snow says for their own benifit. how was it a prophet told followers that a comet was their spaceship to their heavan and they died following him? all those believe who or what their diety is and in my honest opinion they lost if they destroy others or destroy others spirit in their flavor. i will ask all those in this debate to hold off putting others down for their views.
people who are following the likes of Jim Jones, etc. are people who are stuck in the lower vibrations of ego (E.G.O.=easing god out)..looking outside of themselves for answers. When we do that, we are not in alignment with universal principles and we encounter troubles. We were given free will and because of that, it is our responsibility to find the divine spark that is God within each one of us...some may find solace in the bible and feel that is all they need. Others feel there is much more to it. We are constantly evolving and this is the part that keeps life exciting. Faith is a large part of it, to be sure, but so is being awake and aware--remembering who we truly are.
You might want to reframe your question. The Bible is real. That is, by definition, the Bible is a collection of books, stories, and writings written down and passed on through the ages. Admittedly, there are concerns over how it has changed though the years and I think you are asking "Has it become so corrupt that it may not be in the form God intended it?" Because there are so many translations and interpretations, opinions vary on the true meaning and intention of the biggest bestseller of all time. This says a lot about how influential it is in peoples lives. It doesn't shake my confidence in it. I think people get out of the Bible what they put into it. It is what it is. One thing it's not - science fiction. These stories were written by real people about real events in history. Again, I'm not sure if that is part of your question or not. What do you think of the replies so far Birdie1?
The Bible is as valid and meaningful as any other faith based writing - the various Buddhist Canons - the Pali, Tibetan and Chinese,The Great Hindi writings - the Rig, Sama and Yajur Veda, the Upanishads, the Icelandic Eddas, and so on and so forth, including Islamic writings. There are a slew of theistic writings around, after all. And, essentially, they all want to help people be good people, live good lives and have some sort of eternal grace.
I look at all of them as the work of people who may have considered themselves divinely inspired or who merely wanted to share with others their most fervently held beliefs. I don't consider any of them to be "true" in that they are only expressions of the people who created them, often over hundreds or thousands of years (taking oral traditions and cross-cultural myths into account), but I do believe that in them we find bits and pieces of that ultimate "truth" that we can use.
The Bible undoubtedly reflects some historical events as well as retold myths from the region (virgin birth was popular for gods, as was the dying and resurrecting god), just as the tales of the destruction of Troy came down to us in poetry that we thought was fiction - until Schleimann found Troy. I believe that there were historical figures Buddha, Jesus, King Arthur, and others who were the basis for these beautiful myths. They were not who we think of them after all the myth developed, but whether they were one individual or a series of individuals blended into one is really unimportant. It is the story, it is the belief, it is the hope that is so important. Hope is one thing humans have that no other species has (that we know of).
Will is right. No one should be put down for holding a spiritual belief - or for not holding one. We all do the best we can here. As long as no one is shoving something down your throat then PAX to all. I can debate documents, but I chose not to attack the faith of others so long as they are not attacking me - and even then I'm unlikely to stoop to that same level.
Although I am a "card carrying" neo-Pagan (assuming we had cards), I don't resent any belief system per se. I might have a huge problem with some of the followers, and I might personally think that some of the "founders" are not only "turning" in their graves, but spinning at this point, but I that is my opinion only. I'm not going to opine on the ultimate unknown as if I actually "knew" the unknowable.
Snake that is why I tend to mostly shy away from the discussions about if a book may be something with actually stories of things happening or not.
What is sad when even pondering such items like the original post happens to be how much the press tends to in most cases over blow the subject. That is where there are times when folks do get into very heated debates (some cases arguments). I can not truly say I know the book inside and out like I did some 35 years ago, time and the roll-over where both side of my head was slapped have lead to some fogginess in recalling exact things from the past.
One thing I do like about this group as I tend to like with other groups is that people do refrain from calling one path or another as a blatant lie to that it makes it nice. All paths seeking the Spiritual Guidance from within are valid as far as I am concerned, for your right in the 50-50 chance that one path may actually lead to what ever promise land there is when this life ends.
