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"Aside from getting a better job, doesn't becoming a better educated person count for anything?"

It absolutely should. But you can educate yourself in your public library. I know plenty of people with degrees from MIT that are not educated (in the wide sense, cultured etc) nor are they "intellectuals", not by a longshot, and I know others with a lowly BS degree who are far smarter and far more educated. (wide sense)

And labor includes intellectual labor, not just digging ditches. WIthout the inventors and the scientists and engineers, your overpaid UAW types would be wearing skins, carrying clubs and beating each other over the head.

Wow Baxtor....there only 12 successful people who are not college graduates out of every 33 billion? Never hear that figure before; got a link?

I also think it is very very hard to make decent money without a college degree unless one has the discipline to learn a trade.

Back in the day, a person could be editor-in-chief of a newspaper without a college degree by working his/her way up. Not so today.

Back in the day, a person could be a plant manager, a job which did not require a college education, and take care of a family very comfortably. Or he/she could work in manufacturing and get excellent benefits and a decent salary. Not so today since we don't have manufacturing jobs anymore.

Without and education, the opportunities are limited. With and education, the possibilities are endless. I don't understand how people can argue against education.

My husband, no education after high school, is in construction. He is seven years younger than I, makes less money than I, and his body is giving out from the physical nature of his work. He looks at me, the salary I make for 10 months of work, all my time off, and regrets that he was too busy living on a ranch in Arizona while I was getting a Masters plus 32 credits.

More leads to more. Education is more.

Without AN education, not AND. Muscle memory.

The local BMW dealer charges $120./hour for labor. What's worse, even though they can charge as little as 1/10th of an hour (6 mins), many minor jobs that do not require more than 6 mins work are charged as.. half an hour of labor, ($60), which is ludicrous. This happened to me when I had to replace the wiper arm (a $67 part) in my 12-yr old, 129,500 mile "Magnificent 7". I protested, told them the job barely needs 6 mins, and finally they gave me a small discount ) charged only 18 mins, or $36, I believe)

I'm sure the mechanics at the dealer get much less than $120 an hour, maybe less than half that.. Good AND honest mechanics are hard to find.One can make a huge amount by avoiding the dealer and opening an independent shop or even working in one.

Or you could avoid a cost like that and learn how to replace a wiper blade/arm yourself. Maybe instead of that advanced math class most people would never use they should have a little class about vehicle care and teach those things you can do yourself for 1/2 of what you have to pay to have others do it for you.

A friend lost her bookkeeping job almost two years ago. She is 52 and has excellent experience. She cannot find another job in her field. A college degree is now required. Companies want that piece of paper, which is meaningless next to on the job training and experience, but necessary.

The sad thing is colleges have priced themselves out of the range of the average family, so only the financially well off will even have access to college making the disparity between the wealthy and the poor even greater than it is right now.

It's nice to be king. We are heading for a society where the poor will serve the rich and that is it. Scary.

I think I went off topic.

Crest, I don't know that anybody is arguing against education. I think some of us don't think that education is for everybody, and all jobs don't require advanced education, not even need it.

What proof is there that your friend isn't getting another bookkeeping job because she has no degree? I would bet she isn't getting a job because of her age; more likely in my opinion.

Michibilly says,
Wow Baxtor....there only 12 successful people who are not college graduates out of every 33 billion? Never hear that figure before; got a link?

Successful to the extreme of Bill Gates? Yeah, that's probably a close approximation.
Got a link that says there are more than 12 out of 33 billion non-college graduates in the world who are as equally successful or surpass Bill Gates in their success using Bill Gates as a reference being from one to ten with Bill Gates at ten under the present conditions and relative to the present definition of "successful" as described by Webster's Dictionary not to precede the 1998 publishing date?

I think not. . . . .