groups

...standing O for veggie! Bravo chere'

Why ARE we so afraid? I bet most of us know the system is broken, what we have does not work for the majority. Some folks are a job away from being uninsured and are hoping against hope they don't get downsized or thrown out. It's kinda amazing when you realize most here on EONS are looking at that right in the face....but still they are afraid of HCR.

(btw I wish they would call it health care ""insurance reform""..we have excellent docs etc in this country) but I digress...and while I am at it, what if you moved or your doctor retires....then you have to pick, oh the horrors, a NEW Doctor. So really, what is the hoohah about picking your own doctor..but back to your thread....what is it that the repugs have used to scare us into submission?

$$$$

Socialism? Medicare is socialism...that answers that.

Your grandchildren will be paying the bill...um, they already will be...the youngers folks have to pay for us older folks coming of age for SS. Nothing new...

So what is the fear factor? Are we lemmings listening and following the blowhards telling us the sky will fall?

I guess so.....

I also guess I did not answer your query veggie....but then I guess I don't have a good answer.

Everybody is so damn afraid of socialized medicine and I have no clue as to why. It's a proven success in other western countries from which we can model ourselves.

The fact is that if a public option gets passed, every business will drop their insurance perks, knowing that employees will have another choice. Hell, as a business owner, I sure would.

The problem is that Medicare is a realllllllllllllllly bad model. The raping and pillaging of Medicare is shameful. Having worked years for a Medicare provider, I can testify that they saw it as a cash cow. And it was.

Sorry, I got sidelined by the family and forgot to add that if American businesses drop insurance as a perk, which they surely will......one by one, we'll have socialized medicine anyway by virtue of the public option.

I said long ago that it had to be all or nothing. All this in between/negotiating shit is exactly that. I'm not fond of window dressing unless it's on actual windows.

The trouble with socialized medicine is that does not cater to the instant gratification that Americans expect. Good heavens they may have to wait for someone to see their ingrown toenail in favour of someone with cancer. It works well for people who have been raised to put the good of the whole before the individual. It is too civilized for here.

My sister has been a flight attendant for American Airlines for forty years. She had a "girl" problem which plagued her for about 10 years. She can't remember how many doctors she saw in the U.S., each prescribing one thing or another.....nothing worked. On a trip to London, she had an uncomfortable episode and asked to see a doctor. The doc prescribed something entirely new to her and she was skittish, asking what the heck this was. The British doctor calmly explained to her that in the U.S., doctors get rich keeping people sick but in his country doctors make money by not having to see patients a second time.

She took the meds and has been freed of her affliction ever since.

Espirit is right. Wasn't this country founded on principles of putting the good of all before the good of a few? Seems like the opposite of what capitalism has become. The health insurance and pharmaceutical companies pretty much own our Congress and so they have been able to rip us off left and right for years. I think the American people are really angry and our representatives must be feeling some pressure, judging by some of the conversation going on lately - more support for public option, anti-trust regulations, limits on Wall St. executive pay, etc. Let's keep talking to them; they need to be convinced that they are in Congress to serve the public and they can be voted out of office if they don't.

Money talks, Veggie, and that's what's happening here. The people who have it want to hang on to it and the best way to do that is to make all us little people afraid of what will happen if we try to regulate or control them in any way. It's working too. Have you noticed how much sympathy the insurance companies are getting from the right? Insurance companies? Really? We're worried about what a hardship we're placing on the poor insurance companies by asking for a fair deal for you and me and all the other hardworking folks they've been taking money from for years. Cry me a freaking river!

I'm sick to death of hearing how we're going to kill the golden goose by asking the goose to play fair with the rest of us. Capitalism is great when it's working for you but it's not working for us anymore. The Republicans talk about redistribution of wealth like it's the the anti-Christ or something but they somehow miss the point that when you take money from me to give it to some guy with eight houses, a yacht and box seats to watch his favorite NFL team play, that's redistribution of wealth in a different direction. All those men and women of wealth accrued that money in one of two ways; they either had somebody die and leave it to them or they earned it on the backs of working class people who helped them earn every dollar they make.

I don't require much to live. I want a roof over my head, food on the table, the wherewithal to care for my family and some kind of insurance that when I'm old and can no longer care for myself, there will be some means to provide for myself and those I love. I don't really think that's asking for much from the men and women whom I've given my service to for the past 42 years and to whom I'll continue to give my service until I'm able to retire. I don't want much but I want what's fair, not just the leftovers.

That exactly righ MissCellaneous. Thats another thing. For many years doctors could not use morphine, its addicting. Well when you have cancer I would think that being pain free could help you fight the disease, if you become addicted and survive then deal with that. If you dont survive who cares if its addictive. Some rules never made sense to me. Now its available for doctors to use thank heaven. So much is restricted here. The generic drugs can not be used until the drug company has milked the last dollar out of their product and the patent runs out. Here its all about the money. I got used to it but believe me when I say I came from NHS in England and was totally shocked by the system here. Its all about the money. Top to bottom. In England back when I lived there the patients who were most in need went first as only so many beds, usually not a problem in most areas there were more than enough. If it should be at a time when the hospitals were full and your situation was non emergency then you might have to wait until a bed was available.
However, it was not something I ever experienced. My parents and myself had some serious issues and never had to wait. There was wonderful follow up care, places to go to recover out of the hospital environment. My uncle Harold had cancer and after surgery went to a convalescent hospital until he could go home. It was in a converted castle with gardens overlooking the English channel. Cant beat that haha. My aunt had Parkinsons and spent her last years in one of those places and it was all free. Yes, taxes are high when you work but you get them back if you are sick............everyone gets good care. It has changed somewhat due to the fact that immigration got out of hand and people got the service without paying in. Now there is a modest fee for prescriptions.

Capitalism-Is it God?
The evidence would suggest that for many of the very Americans for whom it doesn't work, it is.

No, old friend, it isn't God but it is good!

I am sorry for your anger in regard to the question of capitalism in the health care delivery. It is a conundrum.

I do believe as you do that health care is indeed broken. Unfortunately not everyone sees the culprits.
You have elucidated one very big one, the health insurers. The tactics of "scare and confuse" works well. A public alternative should be in the equation.

We have virtually destroyed the vendor process in our hospitals. We have stripped to the bone anything hospitals buy, whether it is medicine, band-aids, or x-ray film. Yet hospital expenses still climb. It is time to admit that there are some people who make way too much. You can take a walk through the Dr's parking lot to see for yourself. It must be all about money dare say but that is what it has been and will continue to be since it is OK to make money in America but our country demands that no one need be hurt at the workplace.
We certainly have come a long way in America and you can't fool everybody.
Let's stay focused on the problem rather than the smoke and mirrors of the bigger problem.

Best
Ricky