Hmm, Its been a long summer. I've become cynical. He 22 and hasn't looked for a job, likes to leave messes for me to clean up and has taken up smelling really bad. He does little space invading things and its hard because our jobs are always at risk, especially now. He says we don't really need them. He doesn't get up until 2 or 3 in the afternoon. Sometimes he does work if he's paid enough by us.
I really hate it. I seems sick and makes me feel like leaving. We can hold cigarettes over his head. We don't give him any unless he does this or that. But obviously we don't make very effective use of that. Part of the reason is my husband is so permissive. Hands out cash and the credit card because keeping track of things is a trouble. The other reason is all of his friends are still living at home too. Most have jobs though.
He thinks we are really rich, millions. No way. He's especially bad when one friend comes over that also doesn't have a job.
I would feel like reasonable boundaries are; No smoking in the house we are allowed to check his room, it should not be filled with liquor bottles He should get up by 8 He should not leave any messes - zero he should contribute to the household chores He should not have friends over to spend the night
I don't want to share my home with him. He's mean and sometimes aggressive. He comes in late at night and drinks. Hubby says he going to let him dig his own grave, and that means doing nothing. I have to live with it. As long as he attends school (although none this summer), we should live with this infantile behavior.
I told him I'm leaving. I'm serious. I want him to get his act together if he wants a place to stay. I don't feel like I owe him, and I really doubt this situation is of any benefit to him.
It sounds as if your son is 8 instead of 22. Why would you consider leaving? It's your home and he's not pulling his weight financially or in any other way. It sounds as though he goes to college. If this is the case, let me get a room on campus and live there or if he has to live in your house make him understand that there are rules and boundaries. If he can't keep them, then he can move out. You have to get tough with this young man. 22 is no longer a child and if this is the way he is beginning adulthood, what will his future be like? Good luck!!
My husband keeps giving him paying him to be a jerk. He calls it letting him hang himself. Supposedly the baby learns from this. Not! The baby learns to do the minimal and believe his parents will be his compassionate employer for life. I'm the evil conservative who covets cold, hard cash. I told my husband I'm leaving because he (my husband), can't control himself, He keeps feeding his son's addiction, waiting for him to effortlessly blossom. Why would he make this choice when we could have a good life together?
Last night he finally refused to give my son cigarettes. That made my son angry, but he controlled himself. He said he was going to drop out of school and get a job (LOL). I suspect he stayed up all night. At my insistence we have installed a switch on the tv and internet so he's offline at night. Since he doesn't get up until 2 in the afternoon, that hurts.
I don't know where he'd go if we threw him out. He We're afraid to put him in a room on campus. He finds the worst people, he becomes very sick and depressed. At home there's more structure, but not enough.
He left out a plate last night. I get up at 5:30am and he shut off the light in his room at 6. I guess he's coping with nicotine withdrawals ok. School starts in a couple weeks. I hope he will be really determined to get out from under the thumb of his wicked witch of a mother. I want to skip the lunch money, skip the cigarettes, and told hubby not to give him his credit card to buy books. Hubby say I will have to buy the books for him, if he can't give him his credit card... lazy. I don't like the fact that we gave him a car that we insure and buy gas for. I will probably put gas in the car the weeks he's in school. My goal is there should be no cash coming from our hands. He should not be working for us.
He does have better times. I hope there will be some of those; then I can lighten up. Until then I'm the family ogre, hoarding the wealth.
I know you stated that you might be the "wicked witch" mother in jest, but I also know that your son believes you are a wicked witch because he can no longer manipulate you easily. If it weren't for your husband, your son would not be able to manipulate you at all. It is hard to have to live with someone vilifying you all the time. You must feel very alone in all of this.
You are not a wicked witch in any sense of the word. You are seeing reality for what it is. Your son will never grow into an independent, responsible adult unless he has to face life on his own and take responsibility for his life. Your husband is in the way of that ever happening.
A 22 year old son who is treated with cigarettes to do chores is really a son who has the emotional maturity of a child. And, under present circumstances, that will not change.
It seems like your husband has a choice to make here. Me -- I would move out if I were you. I'd put it to my husband: "Is it him or me?" Forcing that choice does not make you a wicked witch.
Good luck to you Sharon in your decision regarding this difficult situation. It is not an easy position to be in. I'm behind you 100% whatever you decide to do.
Thanks Carla, I've been pretty loud on the leaving. I hate the 'I'm letting him hang himself." This is a parenting skill among some people. You watch your child fly off a cliff after the gift of a catapult. It's simple laziness, you don't want to correct the kid and vilify anyone who does (a money-mongering conservative).
We came home last night and the kitchen was thoroughly cleaned. He wouldn't speak to me and waited for my husband to come home. He wanted a pack of cigarettes and a chance to earn extra money to go party with his friends this weekend. He wanted to know what we were going to give him when he went back to school. We gave him some cigarettes after he also cleaned the bathroom. Today he may have the chance to earn enough money for gas.
We at least said we don't like being his employer and we don't need his help. We need him to clean up after himself. He insists he must cook late at night after we go to bed and can't clean up because it would be noisy. Although last night he did not make any mess at all. He claims his contribution toward rent will be keeping common areas clean. I've pointed out that we aren't there yet. We are also missing more than a set of dishes that has disappeared into his room.
I have pressed my husband on gradually lowering this dependency until it is just easier to get a job. When he starts school, he wants cigarettes, lunch money and gas for his car. I suggested letting him have 5 packs a week and 6 dollars for each day he's in school (lunch, probably four days). If he wants to spend that money on more cigarettes, its up to him. Putting gas in the car should be supervised, not a cash advance. I don't think I'll win on that one.
Getting my husband beyond the Peter Pan motif is hard. Its a constant effort. If I do it myself he takes over and spews cash. If he has to do the work, he wakes up. There is the hope that if I stay they will both be better for it.
I am seeing a new, hard question here. What motivates your husband?
It seems more of a control issue concerning your husband than your son. Not that your son is off the hook by any means, but it appears that your husband does not respect you nor does he hold any faith in your decisions.
If your husband shows little respect for you and shows less faith in your decisions, that's exactly what your son is going to emulate. And, boy is your son doing a bang up job with that.
It appears that your husband sabotages your efforts subconsciously, nevertheless purposely. Again, this seems to be more about your husband's need for control than it is about your son.
It is your husband who is establishing the boundaries, and he won't let you have any say.
Yes, this was outrageous when he was in high school. He was 'the adhd success story in elementary and he was declassified. I worked very hard, hours every day and all summer to keep my son academically intact. My husband felt I was too involved. Middle school change all that. My son was bullied and that became his fault. The administration decided to solely work with my husband and exclude me from any conversation at all. They call it 'getting us on the same page'. My husband has mild cerebral palsy, implying his son had a behavior problem and didn't need help, was a coping mechanism the school capitalized on. I was discredited and my son spent the rest of his school days being transported downstate to a restrictive, abusive, reform style setting.
The roundtrip ride was four hours each day. It was horrific, I know that at least one girl committed suicide (at 12) under the guise of this special ed. This is an upscale neighborhood; I think they use special ed to control the tide of immigration from NYC.
Rubbing my husbands nose in the fact that he could grow some parenting skills seems to help. He never seemed to understand that success is all about work. Last night my son decided he couldn't afford to go to the party in the next county. He had a friend over, they were quiet, and he cleaned up after himself. He wanted money last night, but my husband told him to wait. Clearly not being at this kids beck and call improves his behavior.
Today I am missing my dishes. I should have 12 plates; I have 6. I should have cups, glasses, silverware. It's missing. He ate on our last large plates last night with his friend, while we ate on saucers. The power struggle continues. My husband want to make my son's room off limits. I want my dishes. I hope I don't have to divorce my husband over the lack of dishes.
Sharon, I wrote you another really good reply, and then my computer crashed before I had a chance to send it. So discouraging! Oh well. Here we go again.
Because of your earlier experiences when your son was a youth and your husband and the so-called "authorities" at school took over and therein disabled your power as a parent, your son learned that you have no power. The seed was planted back then, and it is now an overgrown weed. Your husband is exacerbating this by continuing to disallow your authority. Your husband has almost 100% control -- which must be pleasing to his male-ego, however it is not working for the benefit of anyone. I have to ask: How do you feel about being told by both your son and your husband that you can't venture into your son's room to at least look for lost dishes? Your dishes?
Whose house is this anyway? Are you merely a guest in your own home? Time to take your power back. This is your home and you have equal rights to venture anywhere in your house, as does your husband. This same power does NOT belong to your son. He is merely a long-term guest that you tolerate because he is your son. He is NOT the boss. You have equality with your husband. He should not dominate. Just because a guy has a pair of testicles does not make him smarter or more capable.
Now, by taking back your power, will this assertion prompt more rebelliousness from either your husband and your son, or both at the same time? Will exerting your rights cause such dissension that you would rather not tip the boat so to speak? Has the final straw already broken the camel's back (in this case, your back)? Are you up to it, or would you rather just move away and let them stew in their own juices?
These are some questions to ponder at this point. How do you feel about this?
Again, feel free to rant. I am behind you, as is everyone here.
Peter Pan gave his Lost Boy money for cigarettes, before Lost Boy cleaned the kitchen. I was upset about that. Lost Boy gets an attitude if he has to work. School starts next week, Lost Boy will punish us by missing classes. Peter Pan promised to never do it again.
He needed to give Lost Boy a week to clean up his room before the cigarettes disappear. Lost Boy is taking in a dog for his friend. The dog is sick and needs daily insulin shots. He has difficultly walking and breathing. I feel like a hospice. The dog is next to the front door an his friend is in the basement.
Why didn't we take away the cigarettes in May, when he decided not to take summer classes? Oh, we should have done that, I wasn't thinking. No, No it was a constant discussion, you didn't want to force him. Why doesn't he get one day to clean up his room, he's not working. Is this my house?
This morning I noticed the dishes were still warm at 6:30. I guess he and his buddy started the dishwasher at 4. They stayed up all night.
Peter Pan thanked me for telling him I was about to leave him. That I would love to work things out, but it's just not working. I don't want to battle the neighborhood over being a home for slobs.
Funny Peter's favorite forum blasted me for suggesting I was unhappy with this situation. It's this way with everyone around here. I've caused this with my attitude, the tension in my voice and my desire for structure is pure greed. He's sorry I'm so unhappy. (I said I haven't been this happy in a long time).
What will happen if I'm here when school starts? I think our homeless shelter will become a more permanent refuse for lazy liars.
I know Sharon. You must be nuts for not wanting to put up with this, eh? It sounds like the 1950s at your house where if a woman wanted out of a bad situation, she must be nuts. She is unfairly looked upon as the one who is unstable.
There is recent movie called Revolution Road staring Kate Winselt as an unhappy Connecticut housewife in the mid-1950s. I believe Kate won the academy award for best actress in this movie. Although this movie is not exactly upbeat entertainment, it sure points out the negativity that existed and still exists towards wives/mothers. The husband in this movie is absolutely clueless and has a sense of entitlement that he really doesn't understand himself. Yet, it is a man who wrote the book upon which the movie is based. Amazing. We've come a long way, yet have far to go.
A very important and poignant statement is made in Revolution Road, and I want to suggest you rent it from Blockbuster, or see it on your movie channel. I remember watching my mother during this era and seeing how frustrated she was. I could really relate. If you have a chance to see it, let me know what you think.
Oooooops. The movie is actually called Revolutionary Road, and I don't believe Kate won best actress for this role after all, even though she should have!
