And then there's Honduras.....

Message 969 of 3840

Our president, Mr. Obama, has acted swiftly and harshly to the news that Honduras' democratically-elected, lame-duck president Manuel Zelaya has been ousted by a military coup in that country. A coup that apparently the Congress and Supreme Court of Honduras support and encouraged.

Granted, Zelaya was democratically elected and defeated, to be replaced in 5 months time, but he is also big buds with the likes of Fidel Castro, Daniel Noriega, and Hugo Chavez. He has apparently taken his presidency to mean that he can freely edit and rewrite parts of the Honduran Constitution that were not to his liking. He is friendly with and encourages drug smugglers to make their runs through Honduras. And has generally not shown much concern that his country is and remains the poorest in Central America. He is not a popular figure in Honduras, needless to say.

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Along with President Obama, many countries and the OAS have decided that their tactic to get him reinstated will be to further economically and financially impair Honduras and its people. They are after all the poorest of the poor in Central America already. Why not make it even worse for these already suffering people?

Why is this such a huge concern of Pres. Obama's? Why are we feeling so free about meddling in their business?

We see now that he CAN act swiftly and harshly, so why couldn't he have shown some of that a couple weeks ago, or even now, toward Iran?

Are y'all ready for a sizeable new wave of illegal immigrants because they'll be coming? Hondurans are already quite well represented where I live, but I am betting on a big influx in the next couple of months. And it won't be the rich or well-educated. It will be the poor and the gangs. And we all know how porous our southern border is, thanks to Pres. Obama.

posted by MtnGirl53

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So colgringo, is it fair to say that you support the Obama position? And your reason is because, regardless of why Zalaya was removed, you see him as the lesser of the two evils, or is it because you see the power elite as the only evil and Zalaya, not being a part of the elite, must be the better choice? Just wondering.

posted by OldMike
5 months ago

OldMike- Excellent question. This evening, since I am currently in Colombia I have spoken with many Colombians at a social gathering I attended. The general concensus among them and one that I am learning toward as a good one is that the current people in control hold elections soon rather than later. Basically they are then exercising a democratic process and having a leader of the country that is elected by the people. That should satisfy the premise purported by Obama in his statement saying that Zalaya was the elected leader. It is just that there may be another leader (or perhaps Zalaya again) that is elected by the people.

One major problem in South America is that many leaders talk the talk, but do not walk the walk. Well, I guess you can say that pretty much about many leaders in countries around the world, but to me it seems to be more so in SA. Honduras is in its current position for a reason that is the result of years of a certain type of rule. This did not just happen with Zalaya. Time will see, but I wish the majority of people of Honduras the best and hope that improvement comes for them.

posted by colgringo
5 months ago

Since colgringo took several quotes out of context from an article in Open Democracy without giving a link, I thought I would give the link and suggest people read the article in full - I got a much different picture of the situation - it definatly says that Zalaya was trying to use the fourth ballot box to maintain his grip on power and that he was in bed with Chavez and trying to move his country in that direction.

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Also in the last colgringo post, how could Zalaya be elected again if there is a limit of one term? I thought he had to leave office on Jan 27, 2010 when the person elected in November takes over.

posted by mejk
5 months ago

Thanks Mejk for finding the Open Democracy article. It does not seem to state anything that appears to be contrary to the original post. Interesting how people can read the same article and come up with different points of view, isn't it?

posted by MtnGirl53
5 months ago

Has anyone else heard that the Honduran Supreme Court forbade Zalaya from a referendum? That Zalaya was angling for another term which is proscribed by their constitution? That his actions were illegal under Honduran law? That that is why he was ordered picked up and out of office? It was his intention to try for a second term, in contravention of their constitution, that led to his being removed, the information I got.

Does that put a different take on things if he in fact was acting contrary to law and their constitution?

As to everyone leaving Honduras to come to the US, I doubt it. That might be the take someone who has a fear of immigrants might take, but an unlikely scenario.

posted by GothamGal
5 months ago

From what I've read Zelaya had no chance of winning the referendum even if he tried to go ahead with it. The principal of democracy is to let the people have their say. Other action could have been shutting down the referendum election. Little enough time remained on his current term that I disagree that the military had to place their man in power. I hope that elections are held immediately.

posted by mshadow22
5 months ago

But, colgringo, aren't there time, even in the U.S., when an elected official is not allowed by the law of the land to finish his or her term? That is what I thought happened in Honduras. And if so, then why is it really any of our business? Seems to me that Zelaya was ousted according to their laws, not by a military coup, and if that's the case, then why would you or anyone support having him back in power (which he can't be due to term limits, but that's what he wanted to change)?

On another topic -- am I the only one that has been saying all along that Obama's plan is to try to eliminate term limits in this country?

posted by OldMike
5 months ago

"As to everyone leaving Honduras to come to the US, I doubt it. That might be the take someone who has a fear of immigrants might take, but an unlikely scenario. "

Let's see, that's what you said.

This is what I said:

"Are y'all ready for a sizeable new wave of illegal immigrants because they'll be coming? Hondurans are already quite well represented where I live, but I am betting on a big influx in the next couple of months. And it won't be the rich or well-educated. It will be the poor and the gangs. And we all know how porous our southern border is, thanks to Pres. Obama."

Now tell me where you hear fear here. It's simple honesty. And of course you'd be clueless because it doesn't effect you way up North in NYC. It will happen, the SW will see an increase from Honduras just in time for schools to start. On that I have no doubt. There is no fear here, only prediction based on what has happened in the past from my observation deck, which is that of a teacher in a highly Hispanic area of the DFW area of Texas. But don't worry GG, you can relax your fears. It won't effect you.

posted by MtnGirl53
5 months ago

When someone plays the "fear" card, it's their way of saying that they disagree with you but don't know why! That's just my opinion, of course. You don't have to be afraid of anything to state your opinion based on past facts, but some people can't think of an argument against that opinion, so they accuse you of being fearful. It happens all the time. "I'm not sure I like the idea of sanctuary cities, they only harbor illegal immigrants and become safe havens for all kinds of drugs and illegal activity." Reply - "Why, what are you afraid of?" Counter - "I'm not afraid of anything, just saying..."

posted by OldMike
5 months ago

Thanks old Mike. I kind of figured it out that way, but I felt the need to respond back since it was such an innane comment to start with. And somewhat inflamatory as well. But I do know that it was said out of ignorance and I appreciate your confirmation of that.

posted by MtnGirl53
5 months ago

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