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Canyon De Chelly cliff dwellings.

When in my twenties I read a lot about this kind of stuff. And when I live in Phoenix, there was a lot of reading material. Anasazi(if I remember correctly) was Navajo for "The Old Ones". At that time it was thought that the people of the canyons left because of a great drought, and split to form the Pueblo, Navajo, and one or two I can't remember. Maybe it's time to get re-interested.

Welcome to our group Redhand, and yes I went to the Cliff Dwellings when I was in New Mexico many years ago. I was interested thereafter. I would love to go back.
I assume too that they became as you say, one of the other tribes.....how ever it seems not because they would know? ....its like they disappeared. I need to get back into reading about it as well......thats what I want to accomplish with the group really. Inspiring interest to get digging back into the things that interest us.

There are a lot of theories about what happened to the Anasazi, everything from climate change to warfare with other groups, or a combination of factors.

Many of the Anasazi groups moved further east to the Rio Grande area in New Mexico and became the ancestors of the Pueblo peoples.

Others may have moved to the area around Oraibi and become the ancestors of the Hopi people.

If I'm not mistaken, most scientists believe that the four corners area underwent a drastic climate change sometime around 1100-1250 AD, becoming a lot more arid.

That makes some sense if you think about places like Mesa Verde and Chaco Canyon. These were fairly large population centers, and in the case of Chaco Canyon, probably religious/spiritual centers. As such, they had to have some steady food supply to sustain these populations. And as the climate becamre drier, growing enough food would become difficult.

Some scientist believe that people in the sphere of influence of these places, brought food as tribute when they visited for whatever religious/political functions they attended. But personally, I don't believe in itself would be enough to satisfy the food requirements.

And along with the change in climate, and probably pressure from warring groups, day-to-day living in these areas became more and more challenging.

There has been some evidence that some of these areas began practicing cannibalism, probably more in a ritualistic sense than nutritional. Human remains have been found in the area with marks on the bones consistent with butchering meat.

However, in ten years, someone else may have a whole different interpretation of what these marks are indicative of.

It is a fascinating puzzle, though. I doubt we will ever find out conclusively what happened.

Still, there is something very eerie about going to these sites and entering the ruins.

My .02 worth (in 1969 dollars!)

i have read that before about the Kivas the circle area was a religous ceremonial area where they perhaps practiced sacrificial human rites.
are these sites still opened to the public?

It was quite a few years ago that I was out there in New Mexico and the cliff dwellings were open then with a guide. I think it was a part of the national park system?

Some of the sites are open, many are not. I think many of the ones that are not open are claimed by, or at least protected by modern tribes.

Some of the ones that are open, on the other hand, have no one to speak for them.

I think that despite the fact that these are ancient sites, and they are extremely interesting to us (otherwise, we wouldn't be a part of this group, would we?), they are still sacred ground to many people and they don't want it profaned by people that don't recognize the same degree of "sacredness". That's a difficult concept for most of us in today's world to reconcile. I'm not sure that we have a similar concept in our modern life. Maybe some churches have areas closed off to "non-believers", or non-members, but as an overall cultural guideline, one doesn't immediately come to mind.

But then again, there may be plenty of examples... I'm just a bit worn out after a long work day!

Very interesting thread.

Thanks.

Seems like most of the kivas in NM which are on state and national park lands are usually open to the public except when they are being rennovated. I think the one at Coronado Monument (about 25 miles north of Albuquerque and just west of the town of Bernalillo) is currently being repaired. There are two at Bandelier National Monument - both open to the public - and more info about their use, etc, can be discovered at the visitor center if there are no rangers around the kiva to explain. Bandelier is near Los Alamos which is west of Santa Fe. Of course if you're in Abq and don't have time to go traipsing around the state you can learn a lot about early pueblo life by going to the Indian Pueblo Cultural Center in Abq (12th St and Menaul Blvd). I took some British friends there when they came for a visit and they were, in their own words, "absolutely gob-smacked!"

thats good that they are protected and still open for all to see.we see to many places vandalised and robbed of treasures. other than money the real treasure is for every one to see these sites.
i read a fictional book by Louie L'Amour called the 'Haunted Mesa', and like any of his fiction works he did a lot of extensive study of his subjects and locales and i was impressed with his knowledge of the Anasazi.
those are very good pictures of the dwellings espirit.

Was looking for something in the back and found this.......think we can rehash it?