Hatred and hippocracy

posted 6 months ago, updated 30 minutes later

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1. 6 months ago ChelseaLad wrote:

IMHO, there is an element in the black community that feels a right to say outlandish and hurtful words and get away with it. This is an example. If a white man got on a pulpit and lambasted black people as the devil, he would find himself in court (at least of public opinion) for hate mongering. You have to be pretty naive if you believe Obama never heard such talk from a preacher who he has know for 20 years. He gave his tacit approval to it and now he is playing Mr. Nice Guy because he wants to be POTUS. "You can fool some of the people some of the time..." But only a complete idiot would swallow this stinking fish no matter how attractive it been camouflaged.

2. 6 months ago feywon wrote:

You make some good points but some questions like you both to ponder:

Have you nver had a relative or friend whom you agreed with on some things and disagreed with on others, or even outright disapproved some of their words &/or behaviors? Did you cut all ties (if you did, how 'Christian' is that?). Further would you want people to assume you agree with that person on everything just because on some levels you are connected? Say you had an uncle or mentor who belonged to the American Nazi party? Would you wish to be judged a nazi because you would not totally revile him?

Is not Rev Wright of an age when he may have developed CKMS (can't keep mouth shut) syndrome as many of us do...where all ability to think and edit ones own thoughts is lost and no consideration of one's impact on others is considered. Is it inconceivable that he may not always have been so hostile or outlandish? On the flip side is it possible that Rev. Wright has a hankering for his 15 minutes of fame and gives no thought to it's impact on Obama image? As for his misquoting the bible he is woefully unalone in that regard. Most Christians i've ever known were experts on quoting just enough to support their feelings or let them off the hook when they had wronged someone (as are people of other faiths with their scriptures).

How much attention should we give 'outlandish' & hurtful words(tho i believe words are powerful we should choose them carefully)? Especially when many of them are lifted from others? Comparing 9/11 to American acts abroad is old news...said by many in the last 6 1/2 yrs, and the 'chickens coming home to roost' comment: Malcolm X when JFK was assasinated. (And it was more apropo in that context...we lived then as now in a violent society, whether we acknowledge it or not.) Perhaps the Rev is trusting that even those of us alive at the time won't remember???? While his ranting may feel scary to those of us who admire Ghandi and MLK...i find him hard to take seriously...(Which was not the case with Malcolm X, whom i came to admire when his pilgramage to Mecca changed him.)

As to racism being a thing of the past....please..by implying that it is you give creedance to the 'Americans avoiding the truth point' (tho i'm not sure this is a uniquely American phenomenon--i suspect it is a 'civilized world' issue: i could give examples that are totally unrelated to race: many of our current problems exist because we first take so long to acknowledge they do and then waste time/money/energies doing 'studies' before we tackle the issue of remedies: Poverty, homelessness, the number of mentally ill among the homeless since the '80s, Obesity and Diabetes--despite tons of info out there on all these issues a huge percentage of Americans stick their heads in the sand till someone they love dies as a result. But i digress. Racism in America a thing of the past? We've made strides since my childhood--when water fountains and bathrooms alike were segregated, when my family's home was burned because my folks would not agree to 'never sell to blacks'. But the Jenna 'white' tree and the response (lynched effigies) to black students daring to sit in its shade reduces those strides to babysteps and show how far we have yet to go. One thing i agree with foneman about is that hate speech can come from anyone and that it is reprehensible...but if one looked hard enough i bet you could find a 'Rev Wright' in almost anybody's background. Lord knows i've had a couple in my family even...thankfully i'm not running for office or being scrutinzed with a magnifying glass.
May you both be as fortunate.

3. 6 months ago foneman wrote:

I have relatives I disagree with, but fortunately none of them have ever said anything as grevious as Mr. Wright did. If they had, I would have to seperate myself from them. It IS the Christian thing to do, especially if they are supposed to be a believer. I won't go into it, because you aren't a believer, or you would know this. Maybe that's what the world hates about the Christianity. There are absolutes, not relative morality.

Regarding all the scenarios you propose about Mr. Wright, if any of them were the case, shouldn't we expect a retraction, or at least an explanation or clarification? If you're going to be a public figure, you must say what you mean and mean what you say. By all appearances, he did, and Obama supports him.

Chickens coming home to roost? How about all the chickens of America providing billions of dollars in aid every year to third world countries, being the first to help other countries in times of disaster, stopping the spread of communism, putting an end to WWII thereby stopping the Third Reichs' march across Europe and the Japanese march across China? What about the countless citizens who volunteer their lives to helping the poor, starving and sick in other countries? If we go down, who will continue the work? No one, guarrenteed. No one can.

Re-read what I wrote. I acknowledged that racisim still exists. For your side issue I have to completely disagree with you. You are suggesting the government 'do something'. Socialism doesn't work. Never has. Government is the worst way to do anything, and was why our government was founded the way it was. We are a long way away from that. There are a lot of people who want to be homeless, fat, unemployed and hateful, and many of the mentally ill homeless refuse to take their meds, but it's not the governments job to force them to comply. If it did, we wouldn't be free anymore, would we?

It doesn't take a magnifying glass to spot a problem that pokes it's finger in your eye.

4. 6 months ago feywon wrote:

If he did not have a connection to someone running for president, Rev. Wright would not appear to be sticking his finger in your eye...he would not be getting so much press. As to him making a retraction, people who pontificate as he does rarely take back anything for any reason. They are certain they have a monopoly on truth. Thing is a lot of people think that, but only God sees the whole picture. We have pieces of it. Whenever anyone quotes the Bible i generally go to the source...most of the time it's misquoted taken out of context. I also take it with a grain of salt because most modern bibles are translations of translations of translations many of which were done by people with their own rather God's agenda in mind. (ie setting themselves up as hierarchy of the church).

It isn't the absolutes i hold against those whose call themselves Christians..its the....hippocracy. As with every other religious group i've had dealings with only a very small minority truly hold to the tenets of their faith. i have been fortunate in knowing a few in each religion that were truly 'faithful' to their religion. i think if Christ came back today he would be as appalled by the atrocities that have been committed in his name as by the atrocities committed against his 'true believers'.

Clearly you beleived Reagan...that anyone with a problem brought it on themselves...so no point arguing that.

As to how much good Americans (govt and private citizens) do around the world...1)Neither is all out of generosity, tho i'm a firm believer in healing effects of giving. 2) Who appointed us saviors of the world? How about we get the 'liberty and justice for all' right here at home before we try to convert the rest of the planet? Example is the best teaching tool.

5. 6 months ago foneman wrote:

You are correct, if he hadn't been connected to Obama, he wouldn't have had any publicity. The fact of the matter is he was in the news. The fact is that he has a connection to Obama. The fact is that Obama is quoted as saying "I find nothing of what he says particularly controversial." Obamas has been going there for over 20 years. Why stay and be taught by a man you disagree with? I've left churches for lesser reasons. Then again, I would never attend a church that preached hate from the pulpit, and wouldn't stay for an entire service once I figured out what was going on.
feywon, you have an answer for everything. However, most of your answers are gentle twists on what has been written. What I wrote and what Reagan said are two different things, and you know it. How about if I twist it back? You believe as most socialists that no one wishes their misfortune on themselves so it is up to the rest of society to make up for their inadequacies. Anyone who feels differently has no compassion. The state decides your level of capability and how much money you get/give. My statement that people want to live the way they do is not judgemental, it is truth, ask them! This is truth: Where the state decides, there is no freedom, for you or for me.
The Bible being translations of translations is inaccurate at best. For any translation you can now go to their web site and see where the original text came from. Many times you can read the entire story of how the translation came to be. The greatest majority of them are taken from the original Hebrew and Greek texts. Everything else is called a paraphrase. Keep spreading that misinformation. If you've really read the Bible, you know you'll be held accountable some day. Whether you believe it or not.
Like a lot of people, you minimize the good and accentuate the bad to promote your agenda. When it fits your agenda, you say "if one looked hard enough i bet you could find a 'Rev Wright' in almost anybody's background.", which says it's OK to say outlandish, hurtful things for SOME people. When it doesn't it becomes: "1)Neither is all out of generosity, ... 2) Who appointed us saviors of the world?", which says question every good deed, and is what we are worth sharing. You allow for the hateful and question the good. Of course you didn't answer the question, who will take over for the US as far as aid. You won't. You can't. There is no other nation that will.

6. 6 months ago emodina78 wrote:

Remember the 911 bombing of the World Trade Center... those were Rev Wright's comments afterwards... that is if you listen to the tape.. posted on Barack Obama supporters;;; private message me and I'll make you a copy and post it in a private message... it did come home to roost all those nuclear bombs and wars like Vietnam... the Muslim's did it....God damned American as he did the Israelites for their apostacy and led them into captivity and lost wars...
Likewise, Jesus tells us that we must hate our family and follow him... that means that we are too be concerned with the His kingdom more than this world; because the truth would not be in him; the Messiah is talking to his followers. National council of churches as any other church with good sense does not support a particular candidate; however you must be participating in your government and not let the devil in. The guide to voting gives you the means and opportunity to effectively not affectively access the candidates qualifications. Booker T. Washington, by the way was for separation of the races.

7. 4 months ago OrangePOP33 wrote:

I am not excusing hatred or hippocracy. I am going to point something out. Sometimes when people are working through difficult issues in a theraputic sense, they say what they are thinking uncensored and it is not pretty, generous or kind. However there is a remarkable difference between someone like me putting that in a private blog or diary exclusively for that purpose, and a person encouraging others to entertain similar thoughts.

I would not want to Damn America. we have enough troubles as it is. I am white and I know from first hand experience that Racism is still a very serious issue in this country. I have borne witness to it many times in my life. We have issues with homelessness, pork barrel spending, political corruption, and many other equally insideous, harmful things that suck the lifes blood out of lady liberty. We dont need to be damned. WE need to be blessed with the gift of discernment for our peoples. We need to be uplifted, and given hope, and reminded what decency looks like.

Because ultimately you are right Hatred cannot cease through hatred. Its the one fire that you cannot stop with a counter burn

8. 3 months ago Jardinami wrote:

1-John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

I am glad you noted this poignant Biblical verse, it most certainly addresses The Westboro Baptist's Church stand on the Gay Community. They actually claim that God Hates Fags. "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love" (1 John 4:7-8).

9. about 1 month ago foneman wrote:

You're correct. Westboro Baptis Church does have it wrong. God hates homosexuality, not homosexuals. He also hates murder, theft, fraud, all other types of sexual immorality, drunkeness and violence, and assures us that anyone practicing these things will not make it to heaven. I'd give you the verses, but I suspect you know them already. He loves all of mankind. Our job is to love everyone, and help them to see the error of their ways, and perchance assist with their salvation.